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What's it all about, Indy? More about Gilad Atzmon censorship issues and Palestine activism

ccun.org, November 16, 2007

What's it all about, Indy?

What's it all about, Indy?
Is it just for the moment we live?
What's it all about when you sort it out, Indy?
Are we meant to take more than we give?
Or are we meant to be kind?
And if only fools are kind, Indy,
Then I guess it's wise to be cruel.
And if life belongs only to the strong, Indy,
What will you lend on an old golden rule?

Yup, I suppose some thought I would be able to finally post about events in Palestine. I even thought I would finish my study on racism issues in Italy and how it all relates to maintaining an established order of things so that power remains in the hands of the few and everyone feels insecure. I even had some other things on the back burner, Palestinian poetry and an analytical piece. Nope, it seems that those who would censor and determine the agenda for all "solidarity campaigning" have been working fulltime. As they say, the Devil never sleeps. That means that those who are committed to Palestinians, but are being vilified by this motley crew either have to allow their names to be slurred and their ideas to be buried, or they are in some way compelled to react. So, react we must.

Indymedia's discussion list has been the latest setting of a long series of ritual hangings of Gilad Atzmon, of Peacepalestine, of DYR, of the SWP, of any person, venue or container that does not cave into the pressure of a small and noisy lobby. As pointed out in previous posts on this blog, Tony Greenstein has instigated his pathological pressure (throwing the kitchen sink in there as well, with references to David Duke, the KKK, NeoNazis.... anything he can pull out of his magic hat, as if Gilad or I have EVER had any affiliation or shown any support for these entities, knowing FULL well that is is libellous bullshit, but hell, he'll try anything to get his way, hoping no one will EVER investigate) on the Indymedia list. While he as yet has not been able to have the post he and Moshe Machover have decided must be pulled taken down, despite trying to somehow influence people by the presence of "absolute solid Jewish Anti-Zionists" like Lenni Brenner, he's busy as a bee in trying to involve even other boards in the IM network. It also is sad to see the attempts at some sort of name dropping, and the fautly orchestration of it all that somehow rather than strengthening his case, makes him look more desperate.

I'd like to point out a blog that captures the highlights of the proceedings: Saying NO to the hunters of Atzmon by Ftp, one of the Indy moderators who is bravely dealing with this madness, obviously, not used to it quite yet. This is the first post, of which quite a few follow.

In addition to that, I would like to present the letter Gilad Atzmon posted to Indy, which has decided to moderate right now all the discussion on the issue, and by freezing it, is not allowing the response that someone who is being attacked at least should be granted out of courtesy. I can't determine how they run their board, but it does seem a bit odd to me that the protagonist of the dispute is not being given his chance to discuss. It's not the most regular of ways to run things. Following that, is a link to the Nov archives where some of the discussion continues, and in the end, one of my posts to their board which was sent after their freeze imposition, which asks them to investigate this Tony Greenstein and to wonder if this is the kind of person who should be telling Palestinians what is good for them. In my view, he is certainly the last person I would want "in a solidarity campaign". In coming days, some other "campaigners" will be exposed by their own words. Nothing needs to be invented. We have the truth on our side, we have their own words. They have lies and slander, and the distortion of our words and a disinformation campaign that seems to be closer to the ADL than to the PLO. May the truth prevail.

GILAD ATZMON'S LETTER TO INDYMEDIA UK (AS YET NOT ONLINE)

Dear Indymedia list members

I think that you are now having a close range opportunity to learn about the world of aggressive Zionist lobbying. You are a subject to some major assault led by ethnic campaigner Mr. Tony Greenstein. I understand those amongst you who feel as if their private lives had been torn apart. I am totally familiar with this man’s lack of manners and lack of respect for others’ privacy. I know all about it. The man has been stalking others and me for years. As a rule, I would suggest to you that if you decide to address Greenstein’s ranting seriously, you better follow the links he kindly provides and read the original quotes within their context. As far as my writings are concerned, I always do my best to differentiate between people and ideology. I do harshly criticise Jewishness, yet I avoid any form of criticism of Jewish people or of Judaism.

As you are probably aware of by now, Greenstein and his ilk have been trying to cleanse me from the Palestinian Solidarity discourse for three years. So far all they managed to do is to marginalise themselves probably beyond repair. The reason is simple. Although they insist upon suggesting that I am a “racist”, in the entirety of my work there is not a single reference whatsoever to race. I oppose any form of racial categorisation and I restrict myself to politics, ideology and identity. Indeed, I do oppose any form of secular Jewish politics and Jewish ideology in general. It may be important to mention that unlike Greenstein, who was banned from several institutes for accusations of anti -Semitism as well as violence against Jews, I have never been banned from anywhere nor have I ever criticised Jews as people or a race! As you may realize, Jews do not form a race, yet Jewish identity is somehow racially orientated.

In my writings I am highly critical of Jewish politics (Left, Centre and Right) just because I am against any form of Jewish politics because it insists that it is racially orientated. I wonder whether you realise the devastating fact that the gentiles amongst your Indy media moderators cannot join Greenstein’s ‘Jews Against Zionism’ (JAZ) because you are not ‘racially or ethnically qualified’. As well, you are not welcome at ‘Jews For Palestine’ or any other exclusive “Jewish Progressive” political group just because you fail to be listed amongst the ‘chosens’. If you find the time and energy to do it, just ask Greenstein how many Goyim or Palestinian members he has on his JAZ list… So as it seems, a bunch of five subjects who operate solely in a racially segregated political cell are calling me a racist. I honestly cannot make up my mind whether this is funny or sad. I would say both.

However, I indeed believe that Zionism and Israel are just part of the problem in Palestine. I do believe that if Israel would be left alone to face its very many enemies in the region it would be very, very quick to change its spot and become a peace-seeking nation. However this is not going to happen because some very powerful lobbies around the world support Israel. It would be fair to say that Israel’s regional power is the outcome of its support by the majority of institutionalised Jewish political bodies. Hence, if we genuinely want to address the Palestinian suffering we must scrutinise that which makes Israel so powerful. We must learn in detail the amalgam of Zionist pressure groups. But then what a miracle, once we try to do that, a group of so-called ‘progressive Jews’ insists upon silencing the topic. I think that by now you know a bit about the subject. You know how this mechanism works: a tiny group of irrelevant ethnic campaigners, people who didn’t contribute a single intellectual text to the Palestinian discourse for decades have managed to put pressure on you. They are trying to split you, to make you do things against your beliefs; this is very depressing to see; yet this is how the Jewish political world operates. Being myself an ex Jew, I am rather embarrassed to admit it.

I will try to open your eyes with a very simple analysis of the Jewish political identity. Let us assume that X is a Jewish political entity. X obviously feels free to act politically under a Jewish banner e.g. Jews for peace, Jews against Zionism, Jews for Zionism etc’. Yet, X would refuse to be criticised as a Jew. In other words, X assumes a lucid identity with a meaningful content yet he doesn’t allow anyone else to criticise this very identity. Isn’t it bizarre?

Dear list members, if you didn’t get it yet, I may make it very simple for you. This is the real meaning of Jewish ‘chosenness’; this is the essence of Jewish racial supremacy. It lets the political Jew believe that he is indeed better and far beyond criticism: Greenstein and his clan are operating as Jews, assuming that there is something in their Jewishness that allows them a special exclusive entitlement e.g. Jews against Zionism or Jews for Peace. This is obviously fine, yet once you criticise them as being an exclusive racially orientated setting they outrageously accuse you of being racist. In Short: Greenstein entitles himself to act as a Jewish political activist but he insists as well upon banning anyone else, whether a gentile or even me (an ex Jew) to question what his Jewishness may stand for.

Questions concerning Judaic Worldview

I was rather surprised to learn that Greenstein, once a religiously educated boy, fails to know what the Judaic worldview is all about. Seemingly, I will have to remind him as well as enlighten you about the subject. In the ‘Judaic worldview’ there is no room for grey areas. Instead there is a clear black and white division between: RIGHT and WRONG, KOSHER and TAREF. God and false idols. In the Judaic worldview clear binary oppositions are set to differentiate between Good and Bad: One God/many idols; Truth/false; West/ the rest; Left/fascists; Us/the others. Within the Judaic worldview it is always us who are right and they who are wrong. As I mention in my paper, the Judaic worldview is an ideology, it is a mindset. Many Jews do not succumb to this ideology, thank God for that. It is rather concerning to find out how many non-Jews succumb to this ideology. For those amongst you who fail to see, it is this very element of self-centred righteousness that made Neo-conservatism into such a threatening movement.

Along the years very many Jewish intellectuals and humanists stood against the Judaic Worldview and the 3 first names that come to mind are obviously: Jesus, Spinoza and Marx. Astonishingly enough, Greenstein and his ilk are nothing but orthodox followers of the most extreme manifestation of Judaic Worldview in its ugliest form. As you can read, Tony Greenstein ‘knows what Racism is’ if you do not agree with him, you are nothing but a racist and a fascist. As his ideological twin Roland Rance wrote in an offlist email to FTP, if you are not with us, you are not in the ‘left’ - as if five British racially orientated political activists know better than you what left is all about.

As we all know, the extreme form of this very binary opposition leads towards crucifixion. As sad as it may sound, the group of people who assault you at the moment are doing nothing but nailing intellectuals and Palestinian solidarity institutions to the wood. They did it to Jeff Blankfort, one of the prominent American Palestinian Solidarity activists, they do the same to Mary Rizzo, probably one of the most adorable activists in Italy, they did it to Paul Eisen and Israel Shamir, these people have managed to crush DYR, probably the most successful Palestinian gathering in this country. These people had tried to divert the Palestinian solidarity movement and to turn it into a Judeo centric witch-hunt crusade. They believe that fighting anti-Semitism is a Palestinian priority.

I myself believe that 70% starvation in Gaza is the real issue to address. If this turns me into a Holocaust denier I can easily live with it. A few months ago this bunch of people were spat out humiliatingly at the PSC AGM ( http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2007/03/report-on-2-failed-motions-by.html ). The Palestinian solidarity movement around the world is a dynamic fueled by genuine empathic feelings. It changes and shapes by events. It is now concerned more and more with the tragedy that is taking place in front of our eyes rather than the Jewish Holocaust, which occurred more than 60 years ago. I do realise that the Greensteins of this world are devastated by it. It seems as if their racially exclusive political identity is losing its validity.

Blaming The Jews

“You useless piece of shit. And you complain of bullying tactics whilst betraying a woeful ignorance of racism. What a wanker you are, whoever you are.”

(Mark Elf Jews Sans Frontieres, on an offlist email to Indy media Moderator FTP)

The above leads us to the Holocaust and questions concerning its real meaning. What is its real meaning? Is there just a single meaning? Within the Zionist worldview in which Greenstein, Machover, Rance and Elf apparently succumb to, ‘European Jewry were a bunch of wonderful innocent subjects who fell victims to a vicious regime who picked on them out of the blue’. In fact I do not aim to interfere with such an interpretation. Instead I suggest that every historical event (Nazi Judeocide included) may entail far more than just a single interpretation and meaning.

I, for instance, would expect Jews to learn a lesson from their destruction. I would expect Jews to ask themselves how come people employ so many vicious tactics against us, why is it that people hate us so much? As sad as it may sound, the abuse performed by Israel in Palestine is no different categorically to the abuse performed by Mr Mark Elf, against FTP. Indeed FTP survived it while a Palestine kid is probably far less lucky, yet it is the ultimate negligence of the Other that strikes me. I may admit that I’ve been living in the UK for 14 years, and it is only the Jewish cyber cells (which I monitor regularly) where I find the ultimate possible violent verbal expression.

As I learn from reading your thread, Greenstein has being assaulting each of you for the last days interfering with your privacy. May I suggest that is this very vicious campaigning and total intolerance that makes Zionist lobbies so hated and this applies to Zionists as well crypto Zionists such as JAZ (who aim at silencing any criticism of the Jewish Lobby in America). For me, every Historical chapter is a message in a bottle. We have to open and re open the bottle, we have to let the historical chapters reshape themselves and we have to let ourselves be reshaped by them. History is meaningful as long as it reflects on our present and future. If Greenstein would exhaust his limited intellectual capacity and read the entire paragraph (that he wants so much to hide) he may have learn something:

“Clearly, the Zionist interpretation is engaged with nothing more than the concrete symptom, with the simplest manifestation of the animosity that surrounds it rather than with the core of the problem itself. Hitler was indeed defeated, Jews are now more than welcome in Germany and in Europe, yet, the Jewish state and the sons of Israel are at least as unpopular in the Middle East as their grandparents were in Europe just six decades ago. Seemingly, it is the personification of WW2 and the Holocaust that blinded the Israelis and their supporters from internalising the real meaning of the conditions and the events that led towards their destruction in the first place…” (Gilad Atzmon The Hunters of Goliath)

And here is the lesson: Would Tony Greenstein understand the real meaning of the Holocaust, he and his 5 Racially exclusive comrades would prevent themselves from the humiliation that occurred to them a few months ago at the PSC AGM.

“Seemingly, it is the personification of WW2 and the Holocaust that blinded Greenstein & Co from internalising the real meaning of the conditions and the events that led towards their growing unpopularity.”

Would mark Elf understand the meaning of the Holocaust he would stop himself from calling an innocent Indy media moderator he doesn’t agree with a “Wanker” and a “Fuckwit”. Sorry for mentioning it, I just can’t get over it. The meaning of the Holocaust is preventing the Holocaust in Palestine and Iraq. The Meaning of the Holocaust is preventing the already planned Holocaust in Iran. Yet the AJC (American Jewish Committee) and the Israeli Lobby are promoting a war against Iran and it is the Greensteins of this world who try to prevent us from dealing with the issue. This says it all. Some racially orientated Jews who for some reason call themselves ‘progressive’ indeed learned nothing.

It is never too late
Inshallah they get it right soon.
All the best

Gilad Atzmon

INDYMEDIA ARCHIVES
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2007-November/date.html

MARY RIZZO'S POST TO INDYMEDIA (AS YET NOT ONLINE)

Tony Greenstein says: "And just one final point. I’m not going to reply to the ramblings of Mary Rizzo, though I would certainly stand by my opposition to suicide bombings in Israel, even if that means criticising Hamas."

I say. Of course he isn't going to respond, because he'd have to come out being the most inconsistent being on the planet and it's pretty difficult for him to defend what he said and come out looking respectable. The fact that Tony has written that he does not respect, nor should he, the Palestinians, that he gives a toss about their vote, that Fatah "at least" was secular, (therefore, they would have been better, a choice that -ahem- only the electorate is able to determine), that the victory of Hamas should be equated with the victory of Hitler in Germany.... it's pretty amazing, and I would love to see him say this on a board or site run by Palestinians. Secular or not, they would run him out of the room. This is why he confines his activities to the Jewish or UK cyber spheres. Not only is it outrageous and completely insulting to a people that is FAR more politicised than Tony himself will ever be, and would know better than he would what suits them, it is a-historical and wrong.

That he was endorsing violating a cultural boycott he was even promoting, that he most certainly knows what is good for Palestinians, and what is good, obviously, is what will be accepted by a faction he identifies himself with in Israel. As if the Palestinians are puppets who must earn respect, respect which has a set of conditions around it. That he does not campaign for the Right of Return (I can't remember him ever calling for it) makes one wonder if he understands the Palestinians' situation and aspirations at all. All of this alone should be reason enough that those of us actively involved in Pro-Palestinian actions and campaigns have to keep him well beyond arms' length. He is precisely the WORST sort of person to be dictating what should be happening in "the world of solidarity". Most activists have gotten wise to him, and this is a relief, but his litany, repeated ad nauseam just like the Queen of Hearts "Off with their heads!!" makes him a character that is almost as laughable as he is disgusting. Both sensations compete for predominance. When one is, like I have been for ages, subject to his abuse, one simply gets used to it, but has to remind oneself that not everyone else is prepared for the disgusting rain of verbal abuse and plain uppityness that he unleashes. Other people have to be warned about what he is.

Again, referring to this single phrase of Tony, no one is promoting terrorism or suicide bombings, and Tony instrumentally links Hamas with suicide bombings. If he knew any STATISTICS, he'd see that they are not directly implicated in them! That they have also distanced themselves from them, and that it was indeed the Hamas that had held the truce longer than any other political party, including the Israelis. His disinformation is straight out of the annals of the neocons, if not straight into the laps of the theories of the Islamophobes. What's Tony's Agenda? To isolate the Gazans and Palestinians even more from a resolution to their problem? Is this the way he's going to spread socialism to the Arabs who he doesn't respect for their political illiteracy, when they are not outright religiously oriented.

They should have caved in long ago, according to Tony, and voted for a party that has NO consensus and no nationalist vision, because the value of their socialism was intrinsic and "of course" the Westerners in the far left parties of Europe would have defended them. What a load of steaming crap.

If all of his intolerance of Palestinians and lack of respect for them weren't enough, he denies there is a lobby, he attempts to shut up anyone who dare mention this FACT, he smears and distorts in order to push his own very grey agenda of some kind of socialism that is not relevant to Palestinians. Why doesn't he spend his time better, trying to improve the Israeli society? That would be at least a target he could reach. I'd let him go any way he wanted with his harebrained schemes if that was his campaign. Our paths would never cross either. I don't bother with Israeli progressives. The best ones are those like Dorothy Naor who when I asked about the boycott said, "boycott me, please". They aren't looking for internal consensus among the "progressive Israelis". They have realised that the victims are our priority and the victims are the Palestinians. Whatever it takes to support them, that is what we have to stand for.

Indymedia moderators caving in to someone like that would be quite a pity, because it would have resonance in internet, where the Palestinians are at some level respected and supported with passion and dedication. It would put Indymedia on "the other side" of the Palestinians. And, obviously, he wonders why his letters aren't given major space. It is so self-evident, that it's not even worth questioning why. Why is Tony never published anywhere? Because his stuff is unreadable, contradictory and venomous. It is only print-worthy in minor jewish leftist things like Socialist Unity, or CIF, where the Zionists seem to dictate what goes up. I think Tony is the only one that is oblivious to this.
mary

http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2007/11/whats-it-all-about-indy.html 

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